“At this stage, I feel the debate about these two bids has become clouded by the obsession with the rights and wrongs of a move from W12 – yet again.
The straw poll seems to be weighted in favour of Bid B by special reference to Ellis’s plans to move to Heathrow. What should be of paramount importance to all us concerned fans are the proposed levels of investment by both bidders at time of take-over, an ability to run the club in the long term if targets are not met on and off the pitch, and the experience and quality of the proposed board of directors.
At the moment I do not feel that I am in possession of enough information to make a judgement between these two bids. I do not doubt that the response to the poll will be a large majority in favour of Bid B because of the stated commitment to remain at Loftus Road but I feel that QPR 1st – who have my total support and admiration for their efforts on behalf of fans – would do well to try and gather more financial information about both bids before posing this kind of poll to the fans.
A final word of warning – whilst I, like many fans, see Loftus Road as an important part of supporting QPR and would love to see us stay there forever, there can be no place for emotion to be the guiding principle of safeguarding the future of our club. That has got us nowhere in the recent past and will serve us just as poorly in the future.” – JDC
“In theory, Bid A sounds attractive. However, I have been led to believe that Ellis put his weight behind the Milton Keynes bid. If this is true, then reading between the lines this suggests that his only real interest is in selling Loftus Road and never mind the fallout.
I would not be happy if he won the bid if this was true. Bid B sounds good too, but how realistic is it? I’m fairly sure we would have a bigger fanbase if we moved further west. We would have to start at the bottom in Shepherd’s Bush. We have almost no empathy with the ethnic side or the young side of things in the area. Not even businesses on the Uxbridge Road seem bothered whether we stay or go.
The local council have been none too supportive as far as I can see either. Their only contribution has been a speech at the town hall at about the same time as the general election funnily enough. I would like to know a lot more about both bids. How can I find out?” – BW
“Ellis seems exactly to be all these things: a dreamer, a property developer and a flake desperate to get his mitts on Loftus Road. The link between these three things is pretty clear and it’s something the administrators have obviously recognised too – promising Chris Wright representation on the board is as tasteless, gauche and dumb a move from Ellis as aligning himself with that fool Winkleman and Milton Keynes.
He strikes me as desperate, but not necessarily for QPR. I also think that Ellis badly underestimates the intelligence of the fans by waging his campaign through the Mirror and on the messageboard (or so it seemed a while ago when a bunch of messages from first time posters like “Big Fan” appeared urging everybody to take Ellis seriously). It’s a contempt for the rank and file obviously inherited from his old man, who always struck me as a patronising gimp during his tenure as Chairman. Nothing I’ve read makes me feel comfortable about Andrew Ellis. He sounds like exactly the kind of Simon Jordan we don’t need. We need a cute and experienced businessman with a profound love and understanding of QPR, reasonable financial muscle, vision and adaptibilty.” – TK
“Unfortunately there will always be an ongoing discussion as to whether the Rangers should move out of Loftus Road. We all live in a real world, and if we were asked for an honest opinion, it must be said that even if we filled the ground every week we could never become a major force in any league.
Let me first say that I do want to move from Loftus Road, not just simply for the sake of moving; if and when it ever happens it must be from a position of strength, the comment by Andrew Ellis stating that if in five years we are still Second Division, then the stadium would be scaled down to reflect our league position is simply ludicrous, we are then stuck for life with a small time arena, so what profit is there to move from Loftus Road, better the devil you know than the one you don`t. As it stands at the moment we know that good players will never be afforded, and that any useful players developed by the club can only prosper if they move elsewhere; will we ever again see the day when the first team could field five current international players, three of them for England, not on our present gates at Loftus Road. But does that really matter,? we are all supporters who will stand by all that happens, and would probably still show our support for the Rangers no matter how low they might sink, but I know that in every one of us is the ambition to see us get back to the top and beat all of those pumped up clubs the way we did some ten years ago.
Yet times have changed and things have moved on at a rapid pace, to have any chance of competing the club must also move on, but it must only be on our terms, as I said previously it must be from a position of strength and that’s only when we have the Premiership within our grasp and the gates are high, but at the same time we must be able to hold on to the good players who will have the ability to allow us the transition to the higher level and not sacrificed to fund the new stadium.
For Andrew Ellis to say we will move even if we are still Second Division doesn’t bear thinking about, a low value club playing in a field under a flight path to Heathrow, competing with Reading who have a useful stadium not to far away, couple that with a low density population, where does the catchments trade come from in the surrounding area, certainly not from London, what`s the attraction? He`s in the property business and is after cutting the biggest deal of his life, Rangers supporter or not his interest lies in his head not his heart. If anyone cared to carry out a survey of Brown Land Sites I am sure a far more acceptable venue could be found, British Rail, that was, has a massive land bank with many large unused sites, only two weeks ago a two billion pound scheme was submitted for planning permission in Cricklewood, one mile from one of our previous grounds in Shoot-up-Hill. The proposed site will have new road links and rail stations, a scheme said to be almost as large as the Canary Wharf development, but who would have known the site existed, it was just another tucked away site held by British Rail. Park Royal is constantly evolving with old sites being demolished and new ones erected, does our property speculating friend keep his ear to the ground, can the training ground be built on?
Also what about Kings Cross, a massive site with excellent road and rail connections that most teams would sell their soul for, Arsenal were considering it at one time. It has good connections for most of our supporters with the Metropolitan from Hammersmith, including the District, Circle and Northern Line, and a short trip for supporters from the Watford and Bushey area having rail links direct to Kings Cross taking only fifteen minutes. It has to be stressed to any prospective purchaser for a team to be successful you need to be in an urban environment, not stuck out in an inaccessible suburb.
We currently have a stadium that has just half the capacity required for an income that would allow us to compete on equal terms with the majority of teams in the Premiership, Kings Cross would give us all this, it has the means available, Andrew Ellis could put up his Hotel this time for central London together with a leisure complex for a deprived area, and who knows the place needs a shopping mall, what more does the guy need, the council would love him, if our friend wants to make it big time, what better?” – JD
“I am slightly disturbed on QPR 1st’s view on a ground move. I know that QPR 1st have always stated that its views on a ground move will reflect the general consensus of all its members, but when I read your reports I get the impression that QPR 1st would be vehemently opposed to such a move under any circumstances.
I have always tried to steer clear of these ‘ground move’ debates because I don’t think it’s fair that an exile who can only manage to visit his Mecca (Loftus Road) three or four times a year should have the same voice as a devoted season ticket holder. Although I would love to see QPR remain at Loftus Road, I do feel that if we can make the fringes of the Premiership within the next few years, our reluctance to depart from Loftus Road will serve only as a hindrance to our ambitions.
I believe that QPR being a potential Premier League team and remaining at a ground with a 19,000 capacity is simply impossible and those of us that shout “QPR should never leave Loftus Road” are being a little short-sighted. Although I don’t always post, I regularly read the messageboards and to those who hold the view that “If QPR move from LR, I’ll never see them again” I’d just like to say this. Firstly if you feel the same as me about QPR, you’d follow them anywhere. Secondly, it must be nice to have that choice. We’ll share your season ticket if you don’t want it.” – LP
“I think Dave Thomas should stop trying to be a journalist belting rubbish all the time and just worry about the Ellis bid and do everything about stopping him raping the Rangers. I think the press release about Maurice Fitzgerald and his leaving was a deliberate attempt to discredit any bid from a real fan in favour of the Ellis bid.
Dave have you a side deal with Ellis? If not why not write a real from the heart passage that the Rangers must stay at Loftus Road just like your speech at the first meeting. QPR1st get together with the LSA and all supporters and stop Ellis and let him know so.
You know the score he wants to sell the ground, move us to nowhere and piss off. Please don’t let it happen. Dave stop the crap, and support the real players, support the real bid and you know what I mean, even if it means that you need to apologize for issuing a bad press report without permission just to be a reporter.” – RD
“I believe that the club should not be sold to Ellis. We don’t want to fall even further down than we are at present (lowest position for 35 years). I cannot believe how badly Queens Park Rangers Football Club have been managed for the past five seasons.
It would be interesting to view the books to see what sort of transactions were taking place. I would welcome the notion of the club being owned by the supporters. I am a shareholder in Loftus Road Plc and although that investment was my worse ever – I would be prepared to put a sum of money into the club (if it was to be owned by the supporters). Not the millions that would be needed to get us back to where we were before Chris Wright but a few thousand nevertheless. I am sure that there are many other Rangers fans who feel the same way that I do.” – JN
“I reluctantly vote for bid A. However, I obviously would appreciate more info. I live to the west of heathrow but was born in the Bush and have been going to Loftus Road for over 30 years. I am very attached to the place but bid B sounds like it has been tried many times before, whereas A may have potential to recover some of our lost status and attract some much needed extra revenue. Much may depend on transport links from the W12 area.” – FB
“I cannot make an educated choice without these answers:
1. SURVIVAL: Do both options guarantee the survival of QPR as an operating football club? Which provides greatest security?
2. FUTURE GROWTH: Does Option A allow for a larger, more modern ground than Loftus Road, with more than adequate parking space and easy access (ideally on foot) from local rail services. (Rationale: A larger ground capable of holding more fans is required if QPR is ever to have sufficient income to compete in the Premier Division – which should surely be a major goal of the club).
3. FINANCIAL REALITY: Has there been an analysis of revenues and spending for all clubs in the football league? For each division, presumably one could calculate a mean revenue and standard deviation of revenues. The Premier Division would have the highest mean value and the other divisions successively lower. Has the business consortium of Option B undertaken this kind of financial modelling to ascertain where FINANCIALLY in the football league QPR is likely to be able to play in the longer term? On this basis, will QPR be limited to Second Division football (unable to compete with higher division, higher budget clubs) if it stays at Loftus Road “as is”?
4. LOCAL INTEREST: The connection between the team and the local community is an important one. Given the financial realities of Question 3, are LOCAL supporters happier with keeping the club local and outside of the Premier Division, or would they travel on the tube to support their club in facilities with greater ability to grow. If the answer is keep it local but don’t expect promotion, then fine… the local community should have the most say.
5. ALTERNATIVES: Have you considered an Option C… Temporarily move QPR and/or share with another club. Rebuild a modern Loftus Road ground on the same site, but on top of a two storey above ground, one storey below ground, parking, office and entertainment complex. Use the revenues from the complex to support the club, allowing the club to retire its debt and compete financially against clubs in the First and even Premier divisions, despite having a smaller ground. This would solve the pitch problems too. The technology to build above parking is readily available.” – AW
“Is there no independent adjudicater that can be lobbied/used when Plc bids are under scrutiny? Surely the close relationship between Wright and the Administrators means they are dancing to his tune and the long term/best option for the Plc/QPR will not be his priority?” – CG
“Obviously ‘B’ looks like the better option to those of us that want the club to remain local and part of the community it serves. What do we know of the consortium, can they be trusted or are we being led down the garden path (again!)? I know that sounds a bit paranoid but don’t you think we all feel that at the moment.” – KA
“I vote unreservedly for Bid B. We cannot allow the club to be moved. It would be a complete disaster with Rangers losing their identity completely. This, in my humble opinion, would lead to the death of the club as with the current situation of Chelsea and Fulham being in the Premier league, we would lose nearly all our fan base and potential supporters. QPR are from the Bush – not an aircraft hanger near Heathrow. People associate QPR with Kilburn/Maida Vale/Willesden/Harlesden/Stonebridge Park/Kensal Rise/Queen’s Park/Ladbroke Grove/Latimer Road/Shepherd’s Bush/Notting Hill/ Hammersmith/Chiswick/Acton/Ealing/Isleworth/Hanwell/Northolt etc. We are not Chelsea, we have always been a local club supported by local people from all backgrounds. English/Irish/Caribbean etc. Try and make Wright see sense. Best of luck – there are thousands of people with you in spirit. It is all we can do at present.” – DM
Thanks to everyone who has written in. Please keep your views and comments coming to: email@example.com